• Skip to main content
  • Skip to secondary menu
  • Skip to primary sidebar
  • Skip to footer
  • About Us
  • Contact Us
  • Site Directory
  • Home
  • Alex’s Lounge
  • P.O.U. Health and Fitness
  • POU Comments of the Week
  • P.O.U. Daily Link Sweep
Pragmatic Obots Unite

Pragmatic Obots Unite

Shooting down firebaggers & teabaggers one truth at a time...

Wednesday Open Thread: Black Ice – Our History In Hockey

June 26, 2013 by Miranda 193 Comments

Happy Hump Day!

We continue to look at the history of black hockey players – today we feature Herb Carnegie.

Many say that Herb Carnegie was the best player not in the National Hockey League at that time.
Herb Carnegie was one-third of what is believed to be the very first all-black line in hockey. Herbie centered his brother Ossie and Manny McIntyre. O’Ree described them as “superstars of their era” with the Quebec Aces of the Quebec Senior Hockey League (QSHL) and Eastern Hockey League (EHL). 

“Herb was a center. He and Ossie, a right wing, were both born in Toronto. McIntyre, the left wing on the line, was born in my hometown of Fredericton, New Brunswick. They were a great forward line, terrific skaters and terrific shooters. Herb was considered to be the best of the three, but all of them would have made the NHL if they had gotten a better chance at it,” said O’Ree.

Carnegie had chance to play with a young Jean Beliveau while with the Quebec Aces. Beliveau, a legendary Hockey Hall of Famer, many years later had nothing but good things to say about Carnegie.

“Even though it’s been more than four decades since I witnessed Herb’s hockey brilliance, there is no question that the years I spent with him still evoke some of my best hockey memories,” said Jean. “Herbie was a super hockey player, a beautiful style, a beautiful skater, a great playmaker. In those days, the younger ones learned from the older ones. I learned from Herbie.”

Frank Mahovlich, hockey Hall of Famer and Canadian senator, was another fan of his.

“I was just amazed at the way he played; he was much superior to the others on the ice.”

Born in Toronto to Jamaican immigrants, Herb and Ossie grew up like any other southern Ontario kid. They played hockey whenever they could, perfecting skills that would turn them into junior and senior stars. Herb was particularly grand, earning the nickname “Swivel Hips” because of his elusive dekes on the ice. He was said to “lift fans out of their seats with a feathery pinpoint pass, exquisite puckhandling or a brilliantly conceived play.”

The better Carnegie became, the more the racial taunts began. Even as a youth, opposing coaches or fans would taunt him. But he heeded the advice of a coach and chose to respond by scoring goals and being better than everyone else. He became incredibly focused on achieving his dreams of playing for his beloved Toronto Maple Leafs before adoring fans at Maple Leaf Gardens, just like his hero Joe Primeau.

 

While racism in the NHL has more or less been swept under the rug very successfully, Toronto Maple Leaf’s boss Conn Smythe was once allegedly quoted saying “I will gladly give $10,000 to anyone who can turn Herb Carnegie white.” Although there is no written evidence that Smythe ever actually said that, the quote, mythical or not, shattered Carnegie, who at the time was a junior player still unaware of the destiny he faced.

The hockey world knew that Herbie Carnegie was a good player, but suspiciously he never had a chance to play in the NHL, not even during World War II when NHL teams were desperately looking for replacements lost to the armed forces.

Hall of Fame referee Red Storey suggests there was only one reason Carnegie never got a chance.

“It’s very simple. He’s black. Don’t say we don’t have any rednecks in Canada. But I’m not saying Conn Smythe was bigoted either. I think he said the quote, but I think he meant that with Herbie being black, he wouldn’t be able to put him in the same hotels with the rest of the team and have him eat the same restaurants and there could be problems if he took him to the States to play against the NHL teams there.”

Carnegie found all doors to the NHL closed, but he and his brother continued to play. They formed an all black line with Manny McIntyre. The trio started in the old “mines leagues,” traveling from town to town. Later they settled in Quebec where they were dubbed “The Black Aces.” Herb was the strategist, Ossie was the man with the big canon and McIntyre was the muscle and hustle.

“They were good enough as a line to play in the American Hockey League, which was just below the NHL,” suggested Storey. “But Herbie was the leader. They couldn’t have gone anywhere without Herb. He was good enough to play in the NHL.”

The Black Aces became comfortable with their somewhat legendary status and they achieved decent economic success. By the late 1940s Herb was getting paid $5100, a good amount back then, and he had solid job offers outside of hockey as well.

So it came as a great surprise when the New York Rangers offered Carnegie a training camp invite in 1948. Carnegie kept surviving the cuts, and soon the Rangers were offering a minor league contract. The Rangers wanted to see Carnegie apprentice in the minors to see if he could adjust to the realities of being a black athlete in America, and also to see if he could have the same levels of success without his long time linemates. The strong headed Carnegie refused every contract offer, insisting he was good enough to play in the NHL and refusing to play in the minor leagues. Also he did not want to take a pay cut or move his young family to a minor league city, either.

Carnegie summed up his own possible passing on the NHL in Cecil Harris’ book Breaking The Ice:

“Frankie Boucher was coaching the New York Rangers in 1948 and he told me he thought I was a good player, but he wanted to be sure whether I could play in the NHL. So he suggested I sign and start playing in New Haven. I was 29 at the time and I didn’t feel like playing there. For in those days there were not too many thirty year old players in the NHL and I knew that if I didn’t make it immediately, I wouldn’t get another chance.”

“He stayed in Canada because he had a better future here financially. He could do better in the Quebec League financially than he could in the NHL.”

Carnegie returned to Quebec and played hockey until 1954. After retirement he became very successful in the field of financial management with Investors Group.

Below is a video courtesy of Hockey Night In Canada’s “Inside Hockey” – Interview with the legendary Herbert Carnegie, who was one of the greatest hockey players. However, he was denied the opportunity to play in the NHL because he was black.

Filed Under: History, Open Thread, Sports Tagged With: Black Ice, Blacks in Hockey, Canadian Hockey League, Herb Carnegie, National Hockey League, Quebec Aces, Sports

Primary Sidebar

Recent Comments

  • People
  • Recent
  • Popular

Top Commenters

  • GreenLadyHere13
     · 221992 posts
  • Alma98
     · 205502 posts
  • rikyrah
     · 181503 posts
  • nellcote
     · 100353 posts

Recent Comments

  • Alma98

    All the idiots and magas think it's great. Their thinking is because I'm dumb and ignorant I want everybody else to be dumb and ignorant too.

    Sunday Open Thread: POU Movie Day – A Southern Haunting · 37 minutes ago

  • Alma98

    FFS!

    Sunday Open Thread: POU Movie Day – A Southern Haunting · 40 minutes ago

  • Alma98

    Afternoon rikyrah 👋🏽

    Sunday Open Thread: POU Movie Day – A Southern Haunting · 51 minutes ago

  • Alma98

    Welp he did better than I thought he would.

    Sunday Open Thread: POU Movie Day – A Southern Haunting · 1 hour ago

Most Discussed

  • Sunday Open Thread: POU Movie Day – A Southern Haunting

    63 comments · 37 minutes ago

  • Friday Open Thread: African-American Military History: World War II

    180 comments · 1 day ago

  • Saturday Open Thread: African-American Military History: World War II

    80 comments · 13 hours ago

  • Thursday Open Thread: African American Military History – World War II

    120 comments · 2 days ago

Powered by Disqus

Twitter

Tweets by @PragObots

Recent Posts

  • Sunday Open Thread: POU Movie Day – A Southern Haunting
  • Saturday Open Thread: African-American Military History: World War II
  • Friday Open Thread: African-American Military History: World War II
  • Thursday Open Thread: African American Military History – World War II
  • Wednesday Open Thread: African American Military History – World War II

Tags

#HTGAWM #TGIT African American History African History Black History Civil Rights Movement Divas Forward Friday Open Thread Funk Grammy Winners Great Bands Hip-Hop How To Get Away With Murder Jazz Kerry Washington Legends Monday Open Thread Motown Records NFL Obama Biden 2012 Olivia Pope Open Thread P.O.U. Sunday Jazz Brunch POU Weekly NFL Picks President Barack H. Obama President Barack Obama President Obama R&B racism Rap Saturday Open Thread Scandal Shondaland Shonda Rhimes slavery Songwriters Soul Sports Sunday Open Thread Thursday Open Thread Tuesday Open Thread Video Viola Davis Wednesday Open Thread

Footer

A-F

  • African American Pundit
  • Afrospear
  • All About Race
  • Angry Black Lady Chronicles
  • AverageBro.com
  • Black Politics on the Web
  • Blacks 4 Barack
  • Blue Wave News
  • Brown Man Thinking Hard
  • Crooks and Liars
  • Democracy Now!
  • Democrats for Progress
  • Eclectablog
  • Extreme Liberal's Blog
  • FactCheck.org
  • Field Negro
  • FiveThirtyEight

G-S

  • GrannyStandingforTruth
  • Hello, Negro
  • Jack & Jill Politics
  • Latino Politico
  • Margaret and Helen
  • Melissa Harris Perry
  • Michelle Obama Watch
  • Mirror On America
  • Momma, here come that woman again!
  • New Black Woman
  • Obama Foodorama
  • Obama for America 2012
  • Positively Barack
  • Raving Black Lunatic
  • Sheryl Kaye's Blog
  • Sojourner's Place
  • Stuff White People Do

T-Z

  • Talking Points Memo
  • The Black Snob Feed
  • The Field
  • The Hill
  • The Mudflats
  • The Obama Diary
  • The only adult in the room
  • The Peoples View
  • The Reid Report
  • The Rude Pundit
  • The Starting Five
  • ThinkProgress
  • This Week in Blackness
  • Tim Wise
  • Uppity Negro Network
  • What About Our Daughters
  • White House Blog
  • Womanist Musings

Copyright © 2025 · Log in