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The cartridge is closely related to the .308 Norma Magnum. An elk offers a large target, so extreme magnification shouldnt be necessary. There was a time when I questioned the adequacy of the .270 for elk. I have never lost an elk, and I do not recall ever tracking one for recovery. Mag.They have almost identical case capacity, but the .358 Norma Mag. Kevin Steele of Petersen's HUNTING is with Dawn Wehunt of Rock River Arms INC. learning about the new Ascendant platform. From limited experience of loading for two different 358 Norma Magnum rifles (a Schultz & Larson Model 65 and a Custom Sako AV) I used to neck up new Winchester 338 Win. The company has chambered several rifles in the cartridge including models in bolt-action, pump-action and semi-automatic. My 35 Whelen will run 250gr partitions at 2700 fps with power pro 2000 powder. | I have used this cartridge on moose with excellent results. Cartridges of .25 caliber and below are not ideal elk cartridges, especially if a big bull is a potential. Of the bullets used, several performed extremely well, including the Bear Claw and a Nosler 250-grain Partition. Copyright 2000-2023 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved. From left: (1) .35 Remington, (2) .358 Winchester and (3) .358 Norma Magnum. However, the small bore cartridges from .24 to .32 caliber have proven quite reliable on these smaller animals, so I am not going to argue that anyone needs a .35 to hunt CXP2 class game. Spl. With modern powders the muzzle velocities can certainly beat those of the Cordite loads a century ago, especially in a modern rifle. In the mid 70's I picked up a 358Norma. Your at the old delema again: does 200 fps matter to the deer. offered the performance level of the .358 Win. A medium variable in the 3-9X or 2.5-10X range should be enough scope for elk hunting. As Ive said, I like mediums, such as the unpopular 8mm Remington Magnum and the faster .33s. Also, the 35 Whelen will not do much that your 350 and 358 already do, if anything. Winchester introduced its initial trio of belted magnums in the mid-1950sthe .458 Winchester Magnum, .338 Winchester Magnum and .264 Winchester Magnumand all were designed for the long-action receiver, using a case length equal or similar to the .30-06 Springfield. At the same time, it will do almost everything the .375 will but with vastly more versatility. Bottles & 12-oz. the problem in this debate is we are crossing over in calibres, which means thrust on different sized pistons. Out of stock View Details . Lyman lists 47 different moulds that were available at one time or another, ranging in bullet weight from 70 to 282 grains. The .308 Winchester is a fine elk cartridge, and the grand old .30-06, with a bit more velocity and energy, is better. I would never argue that a .243 Winchester with a good bullet placed well, or certainly a .25-06 with a tough, heavy bullet, cant do the job. That load actually produced 2825 f.p.s. Copyright 2023 National Rifle Association, Women On Target Instructional Shooting Clinics, Volunteer At The Great American Outdoor Show, Marion P. Hammer Women Of Distinction Award, Women's Wildlife Management / Conservation Scholarship, National Youth Shooting Sports Cooperative Program, Reloading Centerfire Ammunition: Tips For Getting Started, Shooting and Loading the 6.8x43 mm Rem. Ive obviously left the door wide open. Campfire 'Bwana. The case capacity of the .350 Rigby is very similar to that of the .358 Norma Magnum, and the performance is likewise similar. In its 112-year lineage, it has probably taken more elk than all other cartridges combined. Your rifle is your most important hunting tool, and knowing how to properly clean and store it when hunting season comes to a close is critical in keeping it in tip-top shape. Heeding the advice of American friends, Kvale worked on what would become the .358 Norma Magnum. To reach the .300 mark, youd need a 270-grain bullet (the North Fork and Woodleigh bullets come immediately to mind), but stabilization becomes an issue in the slower twists, and thats long been a problem in .35-caliber barrels. .500 Nitro Express. Where the .338 Winchester drives its 250-grain bullet to 2650 fps, the .358 Norma beats that figure by 100 fps or so, delivering over 4,200 ft.-lbs. The .358 Win. And those sentiments can be an awful lot of fun. Can Coolers | An Official Journal Of The NRA, Find More Great NRA Publications Perfect For Every Interest, Discover Everything That The NRA Has To Offer. The .35 Whelen is a fine elk cartridge. and is probably a better deer and black bear cartridge at woods ranges than the more popular .30-30 Win. Why the public abandoned it so quickly is a mystery to me. And, as any fan of the .35-caliber cartridges knows, there are quite a few bullet weights to choose from within the caliber. A cross-section of loads for the .358 Norma Magnum include the (1) Sierra 125-grain JHP, (2) Sierra 170 FMJ, (3) Speer 180, (4) 200-grain cast bullet and a (5) Sierra 200 roundnose. Kevin Steele stops by the Taurus booth to speak with Cody Osborn about the all new Raging Hunter platform from Taurus International. Here are the features to watch out for. The quest for an acceptable .35 has inspired such impotent wastes as the .35 Winchester Self Loader, once labeled a candidate for the title: Worlds Most Useless Center-Fire Rifle Cartridge.. 35 Whelen. So are the .350 Remington Magnum and .358 Norma Magnum. That 225-grain bullet has a sectional density (SD) value of 0.251, a bit light for what is normally considered to be appropriate for dangerous game. It is a good choice for shooters who are very sensitive to recoil, since its free recoil energy is only about 4.5 ft. lbs. 9.3x62 boots 320gr Woodleigh protected points and weldcore round noses out at 2400 fps with RL-17. And Barnes makes a 200-grain TSX bullet designed for this cartridge that, when handloaded to 2850 f.p.s., allows the .350 Rem. crying, My kingdom for a rifle.. As a "stopper" for use on dangerous game the .358 Norma is clearly superior to the .300 Magnums. Perhaps thats why it has survived. I did secure properly head stamped Norma cases thinking we'd need them going over into the Yukon (no one ever checked). But starting in the late 1950s, the .338 bore size gained considerable tractionthanks to the emergence of the .338 Winchester Magnum. As an experiment, I shot the nilgai five or six more times with different bullets, then hauled the carcass back to the cleaning station intact and carried out a necropsy. This is comparable killing power to the long .375 H&H Magnum with a 300 grain bullet (ME 4331 ft. In fact, the recoil of the .358 Norma Magnum, at about 35 ft. lbs. Another vote for something different.The 358 STA would be the one. It was introduced in the bolt-action Model 70 in which it was trustworthy, but boring. There have been many others, such as the .35-30 Maynard (both in the 1865 and the 1882 versions) and .35-40 Maynard. But in 2003 Remington decided to attempt a resurrection. Still have a 9.3 (so I guess it "won"). What keeps it alive? Mag. Being able to take off the scope and work with iron sights, using cast bullets or light jacketed bullets, adds an entirely new dimension to the rifle. Back in 1983 Winchester introduced the .356 Win. The .350 Rem. Make no mistake, the .30-06 is a powerful cartridge, but it doesnt beat you to death and can be built in the seven- to eight-pound range. The .270 WSM and .270 Weatherby deliver more energy, but all three are fine. Powered by UBB.threads PHP Forum Software 7.7.5. Coming from me, this conclusion may shock you, so let me give you another surprise. plowed fresh ground. Barnes has a Vor-TX load with a 180-grain TSX bullet and a muzzle velocity of 2900 f.p.s. I've owned several Magnum Mediums338 RUM, 340WBY, 375 H&H, 375 WBY, 358NM, 338WM. i have a 35 whelen and love it. In rifle cartridges, we usually take the safe route and .30-caliber has emerged as the American shooters choice. Publisher, Kevin Steele is with Brett Marquardt from Streamlight Inc. discussing the new Streamlight Pro Tac 2.0, the latest edition in the Pro Tac series. Its safe to say that of all the .358 Norma Magnum rifles in existence, there are more custom than factory ones, and this makes it tricky to load for in another way. It has never failed me. The .357 Magnum is ideal for light game like javelina and will do for the smaller species of deer and antelope at short range. But perhaps youre not after thick-skinned dangerous game. At 400 yds., the .358 Norma impacts 3.1 inches lower than the .300 Win. As it was released in the first century of the 20th century, when the common boundaries of cartridge usage were being defined, the .350 Rigby Magnum was considered an all-around cartridge, especially in the more open terrain of British and German East Africa, known today as Kenya and Tanzania. Thanks for any thoughts. I believe in quality optics, but quality and magnification are not synonymous. Heres how to avoid the poseurs and choose the right one. Most ammunition makers have a 200-grain load, and Remington also has a 150-grain load with a muzzle velocity of 2300 f.p.s. Give a Gift I have no experience with the Norma mag. The .45-70 is another very popular cartridge. Like most of the children of the Holland & Holland parents, the .358 Norma uses its shoulder for headspacing, rather than the belt, as do the .375 and .300 H&H. Mention the Rigby name to any rifle aficionado, and odds are that the famous .416 Rigby cartridge will come quickly to mind, and with good reason; it is an undeniable classic. Can Coolers | An Official Journal Of The NRA, Find More Great NRA Publications Perfect For Every Interest, Discover Everything That The NRA Has To Offer. Why cant we love the .35? The body of the .350 Magnum measures 0.517 inches at the base, smaller than the 0.589-inch base of the .416 Rigby. The classic .350 Rigby Magnum load pushes a .358-inch diameter 225-grain bullet to a muzzle velocity of 2625 fps for 3,440 ft.-lbs. The .358 Win. Looks like I'll do a Whelen. During the spring conservation order, you can hunt with outfitters from Arkansas to Saskatchewan. .35 caliber rifle cartridges have been around practically forever without ever really becoming popular. It can be the ballistic equivalent of the .30-06 with a 180-grain bullet or, pushed the other way, it can easily match the velocity of the .300 Weatherby Magnum with the same weight bullet. with a 250-grain Oryx bullet-both with a 200-yd. Somehow, years ago, I got the notion that it is not prudent to be opening the bolt face of a 700 from standard (270W) to magnum (358N). As unmagical as that might sound, it's one of the hardest hitting non-magnum cartridges ever. I bought it as a moose rifle but never got drawn in ten years. That does not mean that any gunsmith who had his own ideas about velocity and accuracy might not include it or go completely the other way. As well, most bullet manufacturers produce soft, 200-grain roundnosed bullets intended for the .35 Remington, and these fit a wide range of uses. was simply a .308 Win. While I generally prefer the former over the latter, I think that both choices are effective. Hornadys LEVERevolution pushes the performance up a notch with a 200-grain pointed bullet at 2225 f.p.s. Think of the .358 Norma Magnum as the chunky cousin of the .338 Winchester Magnum; not quite as svelte or popular, but equally effective in a fight. Faster 6.5sthe new 6.5 PRC, the old .264, or the super-fast .26 Nosler and 6.5-300 Weatherbywill deliver more energy and open the range envelope a bit. The .35 Rem. from my E.R. Layne Simpson did an article on the comparison of the two and it was reprinted in Big Bore Rifles and Cartridge ISBN 1-879356-00-7. 10 GA. Then come the .30s, and now were talking business. The 35 whelen and 358 winchester were the two I was torn between. Its a flat shootermimicking the trajectory of a .30-06 with heavier bulletsand is fully capable as an all-around choice. Compare the .308 Winchester and the .358 Winchester, which are based on the same case, and the .358 wins hands down. On the other hand, you must hit it well, because if poorly hit, an elk shows strength and stamina and may cover many miles of tough country. I was wrong. I have a .356 Win. Mag. As it was released in the first century of the . I'm looking for a simpler project on this one. Particularly when you consider that every one of those newer short magnum cartridges burns more powder to achieve less killing power than the .350 Rem. The .35 Win., .35 Newton and .350 Griffin & Howe Mag. However, Winchesters .338 Magnum proved to be the darling of not only those bound for the 49th state, but for those hunting elk and moose at lower latitudes. The origins of the .35 Whelen are controversial even today. This is because it was discontinued in the mid-1970s, and reintroduced by Remington in 2003. [quote=encorerbHmmm, makes me wonder. Gun guys recognize the potential in the .358. Unlike either the .338 or .375, the .35 (.358-inch) has been a standard American caliber since 1900. Also as I have a lot of 357 pistol bullets I was figuring on being able to use them as reduced loads/smaller game options in either big 35 cal should I go that route. .50 BMG. For more specialized uses, Speer makes a 180-grain flatpoint (semispitzer)that, with reduced loads, turns the .358 Norma Magnum into a pussycat for recoil but is easily capable of handling game such as black bears and white-tailed deer out to 250 yards or so. Thought about that 375 Ruger but nah. These include some of my favorites, such as the .358 Winchester and .45-70. In the entry on the .358 Norma, it maintains that, had Norma convinced a major American riflemaker to offer the chambering in the early years, it could have become one of the greats. This list gives some idea of the .358 Normas status today: Those rifles rarely seem to come on the market. Now, I have to go out on a limb and say that sensible elk cartridges arent all about power. It also notes that the reconstituted Schultz & Larsen company is offering the chambering in its Model 97 takedown rifle. This means you have the option to read your magazine on most popular phones and tablets. it is complicated further by a requirement for different burning rate powders. I say that because so many reasonably successful yet hard kicking cartridges have been introduced in the last few years. I think Jack OConnor, the great champion of the .270, would agree. This is not enough to argue about, so Im not convinced that the 7mm is better than the .270, but you can stoke it with a heavier bullet. The .358 Norma Magnum, like the .358 Shooting Times Alaskan, generates a considerable amount of energy, but due to the caliber restrictions for dangerous game of most of the African countries, it falls shy of the markthe .375-inch bore is minimum for many countries. Copyright 2000-2023 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved. With its spitzer-pointed bullets, the .358 is a good medium- to long-range cartridge with capabilities out to 250 yards on big game. Ive seen many elk taken cleanly with a .270 Winchester, and my own longest shot on an elk was on a big New Mexico bull at 400 yards using a .270 Winchester with a 150-grain Nosler Partitionone step and down. My vote is for the .35 Whelen. One can almost hear the echoes of Norma Mag. The barrel is a full 22 inches, like it always should have been, but the foolish design with the huge shark fin front sight turned hunters off, and it was dropped. Equal in importance is that you can hit the elk. Perhaps, if the word gets out to the shooting public, the born again .350 may finally achieve the commercial success it deserves. Among the .35 caliber cartridges popular in the United States, the .358 offered a definite step up in performance; the .35 Remingtonthat popular woods rifleis much slower than the .358, and though the .35 Whelen has been among us since 1922, it would remain a wildcat until 1988. I did kill a ton of squirels with pistol bullets and a little 700X, it would shoot little cloverleafs at 50 yrds. I will go with the 35 Whelen BUT 9.3x62 will be cool due that you already have a 350 Rem mag, if you're opening the bolt face the 358 STA better option than Norma and 338-06 could be a nice choice too. The .35 Rem. I have used the .35 Whelen on critters from bobcats to moose. it is one nice gun and made for tight places. By and large, we shooters seem to gravitate to the middle of the road; to bland, yet predictable, mediocrity. In 1968 the 600 Magnum was replaced by the Model 660 Magnum, which featured a 20-inch barrel, but it was never a big seller, and Remington dropped the rifles. I'd go with the 35 whelen. Opening up a boltface on a standard action is NOT a difficult job for a decent gunsmith and does not affect the strength or viability of the action one WHIT. Publisher Kevin Steele is in the Beretta booth with Logan Killam, the Shotgun Product Manager, to discuss the all new Beretta A300 Ultima Turkey. Theres also a mindset difference. The Norma factory load, with Normas own 250-grain bullet, performed poorly, coming apart in the chest cavity. I had the privilege of spending some time with a 1917 vintage take-down Rigby-Mauser rifle while on a hunt in Scotland, and the words sweet shooting came quickly to mind. Can this be made into a .358 Norma Mag or must I do a .35 Whelen. Equal in importance is that you can hit the elk. Federal loads the 225-grain Trophy Bonded Bear Claw bullet with a muzzle velocity of 2600 f.p.s. .358 Norma brass is a snap to make from 338 Win Mag brass. It arrived with three other cartridges designed to compete with Winchesters popular lever-action lineup. The .35 (.358) caliber has never really gotten a serious toehold here, although the occasional item like the .35 Whelen, .350 Remington Magnum, or .358 Winchester roils the waters every now and again. The .358 has 24 percent more energy at the muzzle than the .300 Win. Subscriber Services. Out of stock View Details . The 600 Magnum suffered from a barrel that was too short at 18 inches. was initially chambered in Remingtons Model 8 autoloader, soon followed by the Model 14 pump-action. It will work in this action with ease and will be plenty cheap to feed and use if one simply sizes up 338 brass and goes along thier happy way. But when Winchester chambered the .358 the following year in its unique lever-action, the Model 88, it became a really interesting cartridge. Clearly, for the hunter seeking heavy game and willing to accept this level of recoil, the .358 Norma Magnum deserves far more popularity than it has received. The rifle, cartridge, and bullet must be capable of handling that one opportunity. The main problem with such potent cartridges is that they kick hard in rifles light enough to carry all day in steep places. None of this can be said for either the .338 Winchester Magnum or the .375 H&H. The ammunition situation is a little better than the rifles. Choose at least medium weight for caliber: 140 grains in 6.5mm and the lighter 7mms; 140 and 150 grains in .270s; 150 to 160 grains in faster 7mms; 165 or 180 grains in .30 calibers. Between the .25s and the .35s are dozens of cartridges that are versatile and suitable. For the one perfect all-around elk rifle, Im not sure you can beat the good old .30-06. I am not into the current long-range fad, especially on powerful animals like elk. Shaw will make a rifle, as will any other custom, or semi-custom, riflemaker. Well, it betters the velocity of the .35 Whelen by at least 200 fps, much the same as the .338 Winchester Magnum does to the .338-06. I have shot a few critters, including a tough South Texas Nilgai, and have been happy with the performance. The only rifles I can find in production are from Nosler, Remington and CVA. You bet they worked! For a while Savage chambered it in the Model 99, and I am still looking for one I can afford. figure of 0.300 is desirable, and comparing similar cartridges, youll see the .350 Rigby comes in a bit behind the other popular choices of the day. In 1965 Remington took it to the next level with the introduction of the Model 600 Magnum Carbine. Copyright 2023 National Rifle Association, Bertram Brass from Australia is a good source when you can get it, and Quality Cartridge makes a run of .350 Rigby every few years, but you could be waiting a considerable amount of time. Meanwhile, the .358 Norma fizzled, for lack of a better term, because rifles were not readily available, ammunition was expensive and hard to get, and it found itself in direct competition with one of the great American cartridges of the twentieth century, Winchesters .338 Magnum. In addition, for stopping the big predators of the world, it's hard to beat a suitable .35 caliber rifle. 2023 Outdoor Sportsman Group. Posts: 46,063. It is easy to forget that the .358 bore comes in an extremely varied range of twist rates from 1:16 to 1:12. Alas, to the best of my knowledge, its not imported to the U.S. Any desire to hunt African dangerous game with your medium bore? Head to the range this week with American Rifleman staff as they discuss a trim little repeater from Savage Arms that comes chambered for the .22 WMR cartridge. It was verry expensive to shoot, lots of powder and expensive bullets and brass. We owe a debt of gratitude to the engineers at the British firm of Holland & Holland; though it is lost to history who exactly designed the belted magnum cartridge, the .275 and .375 Holland & Holland Magnums were game changers. factory load is a 250-grain Oryx bullet listed with a muzzle velocity of 2723 f.p.s. Its said that the French used it in World War I, but it probably didnt see much action. DoubleTap loads the 180-grain Barnes TTSX bullet at 3100 fps, and the 225-grain Swift A-Frame at 3000 fps, giving options to the hunter who wants the most versatility from their big-game rifle. The .350 Magnum has a case length of 2.742 inches, and an overall cartridge length 3.44 inches, so it will feel at home in a magnum-length receiver. People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf. The better ones create mild gallery or small-game loads that are economical, quiet, virtually without recoil and best of all a lot of fun to shoot. Then come the .270s. Heres a detailed look at each step of the process. All Petersen's Hunting subscribers now have digital access to their magazine content. So are the .350 Remington Magnum and .358 Norma Magnum. At 300 yards, it has 19 percent more energy than the .300 Win. How it would have done on a live animal is impossible to say. The .358 Norma can be loaded down to duplicate the performance of either of the two smaller cartridges. The numerous magnum .30s are also excellent, but they deliver more recoil. Hornady has a Superformance load with a 200-grain SP at 2910 f.p.s. The bullet was the then-new Trophy Bonded 250-grain Bear Claw. While the Colt Model 601 was the first AR-15 to be mass-produced, there were several design variations that came before during the platform's development. Remington currently lists a Model 7 rifle with a 20-inch barrel; todays version of the 600 in .350 Rem. But there is no compelling reason to consider a caliber larger than .35. It never got up. In a letter written to friend Townsend Whelen during early 1920s, Leslie Simpson-- one of the first Americans to become a professional hunter in Africa--opined that the hunting world needed a .35 caliber cartridge . From the Green Goblin (a bolt-action rifle I built on a Remington action), both will produce groups that are sub-minute-of-angle. Its often thought that if they had it would have gained popularity over the .338 Win. Likewise, so do experienced western elk hunters. In any mass-production rifle, either the .375 or .338, or both, will be found as a standard chambering. of muzzle energy. It is capable of driving a. This was not the factory bullet from the 1960s, with its mild-steel jacket, but a later one. The sad truth is that the active list of current .35-caliber rifles and cartridges is tragically short. Ill bet its been awhile since those cartridges have been seen in a hunting camp. Winchester and Hornady both offer 200-grain loads at 2475 f.p.s. is on the threatened list, this one is on a path to extinction. Avoid quick-opening bullets, especially match bullets; instead, choose controlled-expansion designs intended for hunting larger game. I was used to the 30-06 parent cases (.270, 25-06, etc) so that is what I decided on. I shot my first bull elk in Montanas Pioneer Mountains on a snowy Thanksgiving in 1972. Mag. With cast bullets, A-5744 and Trail Boss are usually the best choices, although H-4895 is a good powder for midvelocity hunting loads. If we compare the .300 Win. An earlier Western Cartridge load delivered 2,660 fps, which I suspect is closer to the truth. Got a nice .270 Win MTN Rifle donor 700. Far more alternatives, in fact, than exist in several more popular caliber families. The writings of Robert Ruark certainly helped the reputation of the cartridge and the company, as Ruark put his young PH Harry Selby and the .416 Rigby rifle he carried on a pedestal. For the handloader, as the accompanying table demonstrates, the .358 Norma Magnum provides an almost unbelievable range of possibilities, from loads light enough for gallery shooting to heavy enough. .470 Nitro Express. All rights reserved. as a way to boost the power of the Model 94 lever-action rifle. With todays interest in long-range shooting, big scopes are in, but powerful scopes add weight. Most rifle elk hunting is not like bowhunting during the bugling season.