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What if you transfer from being an officer with 8 years of service (including enlisted time) to being warrant aviation? To create a mission-ready helicopter pilot, the Army invests between six hundred thousand and one million dollars during approximately one year of flight training. After AFIT, Stan would owe a payback for school and might have to serve longer than his 5-year non-pilot ADSC. , I worry that Ive done people a disservice by making the Active Duty pilot career path seem too unattractive. I like the idea of the Ultimate career path because it still allows you to earn a 20-year military retirement.. Ideally, you should enlist with one of those units as soon as youre old enough and serve part-time while you complete college. What I would propose is to change the flight school is conducted to make it cheaper and make it easier to increase throughput. Laws and regulations that govern military personnel may For the Army, the costs are much cheaper. Warrant Officer Candidate School is a five-week program. The Modern War Institute does not screen articles to fit a particular editorial agenda, nor endorse or advocate material that is published. But then again, it's 4 more years of employment or should I say deployments. If he didnt go to AFIT, hed have to move for a second assignment anyway. You are likely going to be on Active Duty Status for about 7 years once you finish command as most officers command a company around their 6th year of service. It must continue to remove burdens that plague the warrant officer community, such as non-pilot-related duties and frequent deployments to combat training centers. Do most of your fellow aviators love it? The congressional study on pilot retention noted, One of the most important variables in meeting pilot requirements is the retention rate, as this is used to estimate what level of new pilot production is needed.. The increased ADSO shows that senior leaders fundamentally do not understand the issues, and it will do nothing to address the attrition as the years go on. You're losing highly skilled aviators that took millions of dollars and 5-10 years to train. The Army, by contrast, could only say that Army senior leaders recognize there are growing civilian opportunities for Army pilots. They just can't have over 8 years TIS without a waiver. Your appointment to W1 is a conditional appointment until you graduate flight school so you will revert to whatever enlisted rank you held prior to WOCS. In the current COVID crisis, those years may soon make the difference between having a great job and. I ended up not joining because they increased the ADSO. Paste as plain text instead, It's not exactly friendly but this is the military. Gen. Michael McCurry, the director of Army aviation for the Office of the Deputy Chief of Staff G-3/5/7,who said in September, One question I often get asked is, are the airlines impacting your shortfall? This means that a BCT that goes to a CTC once a year always demands CAB support. Starting in October, all personnel selected to attend the Army's initial entry aviation training will incur an ADSO of ten years upon graduation from flight traininga dramatic increase from the previous six-year commitment. The US Army recently changed its aviation Active Duty Service Obligation from 8 to 10 years and created an absolute uproar. And yet, theres a certain logic to questioning that 10-year commitment. Currently in common core here and we still don't know if it applies or not. (Read. This could be a few weeks TDY, or a multi-month move. This puts you right at your commissioning ADSO plus the three-year CSP ADSO. This is anecdotal, of course, but nowadays there is no appreciable down time. Just to end it and walk away.. victorious..? How do Warrant Officers get promoted? The Army likes to have a balance between the two but they can change that over night. Perhaps it's just for RLOs but don't count on that. This is the second part of a series about choosing between military and civilian career options. He is the author of thejumo brief, a free weekly newsletter for Army leaders. There's a regulation whose number I can't recall at the moment that specifies when it starts. Powered by Invision Community, https://www.reddit.com/r/Armyaviation/comments/gxcx3o/10_year_adso_is_official/. This used to be unheard of. Aviation: dude it's a 10 year ADSO, so I hope you like aviation, cuz you ain't going anywhere else. With survey data in hand, the Army will likely find that it needs to continue to invest in its aircraft fleet to ensure pilots receive adequate flight hours to remain proficient. 10 years is a good rate of return for the experience needed in being a pilot. While Stans Option #3 seems to bypass a lot of this, lets look at what hed have to do: This plan assumes that Stan can get hired by a Guard or Reserve unit at this point. Although its less common to get more than 6-12 months of your ADSC forgiven under this program, that still gets you off Active Duty sooner than expected. Can't be branched aviation. Suddenly, Active Duty isnt looking that bad, right? I was just curious if the numbers are stillsimilar. This mindset is far from universal, but its prevalent enough that the Academy actually had pilot slots go unfilled a few years ago! USMA graduates accepting an appointment in the Regular Army incur a 5-year ADSO (10 USC 4348). Believe it or not, more than a few fellow senior non rated Army officers are jealous when it comes to flight pay. Below are the commissioning ADSOs by source of commission: ROTC Non-Scholars have a 3-year commissioning ADSO. In the current COVID crisis, those years may soon make the difference between having a great job and getting kicked to the curb as a furlough. Im a career guy so I dont mind but initially it can be daunting. On the reset year, units focused on team building, socializing, individual skills, and professional development. My ORB says a date 6 years from my AD start date, which Im pretty sure is wrong. You get to the airlines sooner, and you spend more years at a major airline. I am a former Aviation Officer and when I got out after my ADSO was complete I was surprised that no one questioned why or tried to get me to stay. That's what the Army was counting on. For the next decade of your life, you will deploy a lot and have little or no control over your assignment locations. However, on the surface, we see that Stans plan is likely to get a pilot to the airlines a couple of years before his peers. Yes, the Ultimate Military Pilot Career Path is the best it gets you to all of your goals the fastest. I was under the impression that the bonus went away when they upped the 10+ year flight pay. Army and Air Force use this pay. This can exceed a 6 year obligation. If you quit during flight school you are still obligated to fulfill the ADSO and reassigned to the needs of the Army. Across the force, warrant officer recruiters are actively on the lookout to fill their ranks. Next, hed go to his first assignment. The same goes for great deals like going to Test Pilot School, flying the E-11A BACN, and much more. This is the amount of time that an officer must serve on active duty. Note: The waiver authority for this requirement is the Commanding General, U.S. Army Aviation Center, Fort Rucker, AL 36362-5000. . However, he missed out on that Ultimate Military Pilot Career Path and is concerned about a 10-year UPT ADSC. Anyone who does a modicum of research will quickly discover that our aviation culture is objectively inferior to the other services. They used their experience to mentor and groom all the other warrants around them including myself. So here I am, considering branching aviation when all of a sudden.BAM! At the same time it could drive a shortage of Aviation Officers, but if they're going to leave the Army anyway. I'd love to see credit for the photo. Reading this in Jan 21, after 10 months of pandemic lockdown. That seems like a lifetime to an 18 year old. Stans family has still moved several timesboth as an engineer and as a pilot. NO WOFT POSTS. Excerpt from your enlistment contract which every one of has (or will, if selected) signed. A 10 year ADSO on a guy that already is a senior E6/E7 probably didn't make a lot of sense at the time as well. Although its easy to feel stuck on Active Duty, there are also options for getting out early. A Talk With The US Armys Underground Warfare Expert. You'll be a WO for three-ish years. The service obligation begins on the date an officer attains an aeronautical rating of Army aviator or is removed from attendance, whichever is earlier.. Again, 70 percent of Army pilots are warrant officers, while Air Force pilots are all officers. (Yes, they say ADSO instead of ADSC because the Army and the Air Force refuse to do anything the same since they divorced back in '47.) West Point graduates have a 5 year commissioning ADSO. Cookie Notice Brennan Randelis a captain in the United States Army and is the former commander of Alpha Company, 4-2 Attack Battalion stationed at Camp Humphreys, South Korea. However, Army aviation should not be compared with the other military branchesnot least because of the widely varying costs of producing pilots. Your flight school ADSO is based on when you graduate WOBC and pin on your flight wings. Even during a deployment when demand for flight hours was high, the more senior Warrant Officers were flying double that of the more junior pilots. The Army likes to have a balance between the two but they can change that over night. I'm good at doing Army things and I enjoy them too, but I don't know if I can commit so much of my life before I've even had my first real taste of being an officer. The policy also applies to Army Reserve and National Guard components, but their obligated service will remain part-time, he said. Typical Army of not addressing the real issues. They can surely find that amount in the Enlisted ranks if WARRANTED. They think this is going to solve the shortage. The ARMY should allow ATP for all prior service men willing and fit to fly. The 10 year ADSO was based on whether or not you pinned WO1/2LT by a certain date, not by when you started or graduated IERW. Not difficult for the Army in finding 300 additional NCOs for the WOFT program if need be. NG will have 10 years. By collecting data and then improving quality of life and quality of service with targeted retention initiatives, the Army will not just increase retentionthe positive changes will increase the appeal of serving as a pilot in the Army, and recruiting will increase as well. Because honestly put the lifestyle sucks nowadays. In a worst-case scenario, hes looking at: Wow, thats a lot of moving and time away from home! Not sure. I bet less than 400 WOFT selected are non prior service on a annual basis. It's not about harassments, it how things get done. The first step the Army must take is to implement exit surveys for pilots to determine why they are leaving. Its creepy; Im scared Ill go to get out and theyll be like nah man you have 3 more years. How can I show that my BrADSO wasnt taken? Unfortunately, it probably wont exist long enough for it to achieve the desired effects. Graduate School Program: Only 20% of the. The Ultimate Military Pilot Career Path is to get hired directly by a Guard or Reserve unit and let them send you to UPT. But, we want as many people as we can get to apply. Full disclosure, I was a street to seat Warrant that served for 24 years. The rest are grandfathered in. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. The DoD report to Congress included a description of Air Force efforts to assess the problem: The Air Force gathered data on what drives separations from an October 2015 Fighter Pilot Retention Air Force Smart Operations for the 21st century event, the 2015 Air Force Exit and Retention surveys, the August 2017 Dedicated Aircrew Retention Teaming Summit, and a series of three aircrew retention crowdsourcing surveys sent to 9,000 aircrew members that culminated in March 2018. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. junglerekon 2 yr. ago The TIG start isn't official yet. But Im a guard guy so RTAG is at the end of hooker advanced airframe for me theyll be hiring, all my airline buddies said everything is ramping back up. With this data, the Army can tailor solutions to address the issues that cause pilots to leave. D. Your email address will not be published. There are a lot more BCTs, SF groups, SFABs and NG/USAR units than there are CABs. The Army has had pilot shortages off and on ever since I can remember. But Army aviation is better than sitting behind a desk and possibly dying of boredom. Hah oh good catch. Were you part of the 6 year or 10 year ADSO group? Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. At first, his idea sounded reasonable to me. After all, it is the warrant officer exodus to the airlines that has driven the Armys pilot retention focus. SUPERSEDED AR 600-8-29, 02/25/2005; SUPERSEDED ARMY DIR 2019-30, 10/01/2019: Footnotes: https://armypubs.army.mil 03-APPLICABLE TO ARNG UNITS: Security Classification : UNCLASSIFIED: Dist Restriction Code : A APPROVED FOR PUBLIC RELEASE; DISTRIBUTION IS UNLIMITED: Changes There are also a lot of great flying opportunities that you can only do on Active Duty. These trips have to be funded at his own expense and would require him to use leave that wont be available for family trips. It's kinda like a Yelp! Im in shape, arguably intelligent, and have at least ten good years of service left in me yet an age waiver will not be considered for aviation for either OCS or WOCS. Even if the increase in commitment lowers the civilian WOFT applicantnumbers, the in house career Enlisted pool will fill the void. Another disparity is the pay inequality between the militarys pilots. In congressional testimony it was stated that at that time (2019) around 40% of the pilot population was within 3 years of being retirement eligible. And yet, theres a certain logic to questioning that 10-year commitment. I like the idea of the Ultimate career path because it still allows you to. Flying helicopters looks pretty dope though. The views expressed are those of the authors, and do not reflect the official position of the United States Military Academy, Department of the Army, or Department of Defense. It never ends. "We probably need to look at it and adjust it a . Even just a year or two of delay erases any possible advantages of this career path. Thank you for your time and have a great rest of your day! Rather, the Modern War Institute provides a forum for professionals to share opinions and cultivate ideas. Air defense branch offering $60,000 bonus for warrant officers, New aviators to incur 10-year service obligation, New Aviators to incur 10-year service obligation. Army Aviation Leaders should. There are some other prerequisites they have to meet. For example, its the only service that allows people to go into flight training with only a high school degree. im hopeful the army can fix this problem ASAP. It wasn't approved. That will solve our retention problem!" There's the technical expertise that goes along with it as well. Heres some humor about the topic too https://thefrontlines.com/comics/army-pilots-beware/. Think about approving some ETPs. The B-2 about to get fuel: https://www.dvidshub.net/image/5765915/b-2-and-boom. The BRADSO and PADSO portions of CSP remain in effect. You can review the rules in AR 600-3 if memory serves. This global pandemic has made unprecedented impacts on the worlds economies and our way of life, Koziol said. 10 year ADSO started FY21. Graduate School Program: Only 20% of the Aviation Branch allocation for ROTC and West Point can receive the Graduate School Option. That will solve our retention problem!" Since classes are generally pretty well mixed with people with respect to when they commissioned, the first couple of classes must have been a mix of people on the old 6 and the new 10. The Palace Chase program exists specifically for Active Duty pilots willing to make an early commitment to continue their service in the Guard or Reserve. The Army can increase this to 100% with no problem whatsoever if needed. Is a 10-year Active Duty ADSC so terrible that its worth passing up? I at least expected a survey or something from the Aviation branch to ask why I was leaving, but again, nothing. These figures do not include initial trainingthey solely account for the time and cost associated with the platform-specific training. The UH-72 costs twice as much to operate as a TH-67. If the civilians don't want to join, not a problem. Of the two, retention is the variable that should be targeted. The Army lowered the max TIS to 8 years for WOFT applicants a few years ago without a waiver. Armed Forces REGARDLESS of the provisions of this enlistment/ Exit surveys are important, but those only capture the opinion of those whom the Army has already lost. Hopefully with the new 10 year ADSO aviation will assess more senior NCOs. . Once Stan finally gets qualified in his aircraft, hed get seasoning orders with his Guard or Reserve unit. That's the Army's ace in the hole. For anyone interested in becoming a warrant officer, individuals should contact a warrant officer recruiter or visit the Armys Warrant Officer Recruiting website. More money for tents and rifles, I suppose. Actually, the option to revert to Warrant Officer does exist. I transitioned from infantry to aviation and have had off-and-on heartache with it ever since. Posted on . This means keeping up with at least two airplanes and dealing with two potentially very demanding bosses. Theres no debating that the military has a near monopoly on the most exciting aviation available to humankind. How long is Army Warrant Officer School? Also new is that time in grade for WOs doesn't start until you graduate flight school. You cannot paste images directly. Start date has no impact on this. This is both expensive and time-consumingtough to fit in around a 9-5 as an engineer, especially if he has a family. Stan is likely to do plenty of TDYs as an engineer and isnt impervious to the threat of deployment. The earlier you can Palace Chase, the less difference there is between a regular Active Duty pilot and someone following Stans plan. Im scheduled to graduate, 1st or 2nd week of September. One problem with pilots is that we don't age well (I'm not a military aviator, just a private pilot) so there would be an issue of reaching a physical condition expiration date at some point. . I would also say if the Army wants to recruit more street to seat, I would require those people to attend Basic Training at FT Benning and intensify the military training for non-prior service WOCs. Many aviators got tripped up by it in the last few years in the push to get to the airlines. "Army Aviators don't want to stay in the Army even though we pay them less, deploy them more, and treat them worse than their peers in other branches and civilian careers, so we will just force them to stay in longer. Such changes may affect my status, Unlike pilot deployments that can be as short as a couple of months, engineer deployments are usually 6-12 months. Apache course end? Raising the service commitment ignores the actual root causes. Stans Active Duty pilot peers would have spent 8-11 years since graduating from college flying for the military full time. If I am a scholarship Cadet, I understand that upon completion of my initial 4 year ROTC ADSO, I . TheGovernment Accountability Office reported, for example, that it can take two years and three to eleven million dollars to produce a mission-ready fighter pilot. This means a steady paycheck and decent home life, except that as the newest pilot in the unit Stan is at the top of the list to deploy if the squadron gets sent downrange. If pilots today are so unhappy that they are leaving in numbers higher than expected, why would prospective pilots accept a much longer service obligation for that same experience? It is the cheapest method for increasing retention rates, delivers a long-term investment in human capital, and provides a more predictable model for pilot production requirements. The Armys blind spot with retention data is further highlighted by comments made by Brig. With 21 years as a Soldier and 10 years reviewing cost estimates for all equipment tests, Mr. Ysa Garza said everyone always has to be safety conscience in his role as an additional duty safety . The increased ADSO only harms this effort further. I would never have signed a 10 year ADSO for army aviation. Comments will be moderated before posting to ensure logical, professional, and courteous application to article content. They run concurrently, butthe latter takes precedence, so your 6 (or 10) year ADSO begins the date you graduate Flight School. While I continue to assert this is far better than becoming an Active Duty pilot through the. Before Army Secretary Ryan D. McCarthy signed a memorandum for the change in June, the Army had bumped up its incentive pay for aviators in January. By Thomas Brading, Army News ServiceAugust 18, 2020. I believe you must pass SERE and another leadership course before phase 1 flight. (Yes, they say ADSO instead of ADSC because the Army and the Air Force refuse to do anything the same since they divorced back in 47.) It involves no effort to understand the underlying factors that cause Army pilots to depart and is nothing more than a surface-level solution to a fundamental problem. Why should you consider doing Company . It turns out that even one year is a big difference. The, exists specifically for Active Duty pilots willing to make an early commitment to continue their service in the Guard or Reserve. If you graduate after 1 Oct 2020 expect a 10 year service obligation. I dont hold back when people ask me the best way to become a military pilot. In order to figure out the pros and cons of these different options, we first need to compare the timelines side by side. , this is far from guaranteed. Within the company we tried to level out flight time to give the senior guys some rest, but the battalion/brigade leadership was too risk averse and pushed back. However, on the surface, we see that Stans plan is likely to get a pilot to the airlines a couple of years before his peers. For anyone facing a 10-year military pilot ADSC/O, this means asking yourself: What is it about military flying that made you want to do it in the first place?. If people don't want to serve, you are actually harming readiness, not helping it. Age should be liftedI'm in my mid fifties and still fly helicopters (civilian market) for a living. Increasing the ADSO, though, does not require datait is guaranteed to increase retention. Fiscal Yr 2021 starts Oct 1, 2020. Would they do it with a 12-year commitment? It only increases your overall training costs because typically you have less time available to retain these people. Sounds great! change without notice to me. So now the prior Enlisted must do at least 11.5 years and advance to the grade of W3. But at what cost? Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. Also get's a TS which is money, but dealing with army IT infrastructure is frustrating. Yes, that is 11 combat stripes. His deployment vulnerability continues for even a couple of years after his seasoning orders are over. If you want to fly the U-2, you must start on Active Duty. Can you imagine thesmile on more than a few faces of the last graduating class in Fy 2020 in September. The increase in the ADSO will have profound affect on USMA/ROTC cadets. Moving to a random Air Force Base for less than 1 year while Awaiting Pilot Training (APT), Moving to a base for 6-10 months for initial aircraft qualification. Well, the short answer is, we dont know. One of the reasons for the increased ADSO was related to demand from the private sector for pilots. I see three and four star Generals with less, HOW?! How to Join and Requirements Scholarship Opportunities Cadet Life , Network, As the COVID-19 crisis continues to drag on, I cant help asking my crystal ball how things are going to shake out. Theres a two word solution to this, age waiver. If I am branched Aviation, this ADSO will begin upon completion of my flight school ADSO. In an all-volunteer force, you won't be ready if most of your personnel in a critical branch want to get out. Over the last few years, Army senior leaders took steps to address the pilot retention challenge. Hah right. More than likely, the aviations slots will be filled by personnel lower on the OML. The 10-year service obligation is the result of a numbers-related calculus related to Army manning and will not address the problems that make Aviators leave. Im not young, but Ive aged well and am not ready to resign myself to a desk. , you must start on Active Duty. . Graduate School Program: Only 20% of the Aviation Branch allocation for ROTC and West Point can receive the Graduate School Option. This of course will do nothing to fix the problem of toxic leaders, poor assignment choices, or any of the other issues. I'm roaring and ready to go. I will still try to join but maybe that's because I'm retarded, Guess my packet will go back on the share drive. The. Reading your first paragraph and skimming the rest I couldn't agree more. The USMA/ROTC graduating cadets will make the decision on the 12 year commitment in 2021.