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Employees and agents of Publishers Development Corp. are not eligible. New wood Grips For Colt D frame Short butt DIAMOND BACK Police positive, Praduak wood Grips For Colt D frame Short butt DIAMOND BACK Police positive, Colt Factory early Police Positive (Special) Medallion Wood Grips US Sales Only, New Wood Grips For Colt D frame Short butt grips police positive Handmade Grips, New Hardwood Grips For Colt D frame Short butt DIAMOND BACK Police positive, New Hardwood Grips For Colt D frame Short butt Police positive Checker Engraved, CUSTOM MAKE YOUR OWN WALNUT TARGET GRIPS FOR COLT POLICE POSITIVE, Antique Colt D Frame Short - Detective Smooth Wood Grips - w/ Screw OEM Vintage. The prototypers found that it also fit round butt K frames, and both square and round butt N frames. If anyone ever asked me to pick the two .38 Special service revolvers epitomizing the struggle for primacy in the LE market, they would have to be Colts Official Police (OP) and Smith & Wessons Model 10. Winners must respond within 30 days of receiving notification or an alternate winner will be selected. (I) Giveaway ends March 31, 2023. Colt Police Positive, 1st & 2nd Issue Some are chambered for .32 & some for .38. WOuld be great for my police positive. You could put a modern set of stocks on an old Colt, but they would look out of place. Were talking primary sidearm here, not just as a backup or small-frame plainclothes tool. 2016 to 2023 RevolverGuy.com, All Rights Reserved. In my S&W 638, any +P load is too muchI would just carry wadcutters in that gunno expansion but they do cut a full caliber wound channel and definitely penetrate enough. Deployed military should use stateside address. Although the OP wasnt as expensive to make as say, a Python, it was still a fairly pricey item. But the one old-school geezer with a serious background in slow-fire competition in his youth, went with the Colt OP. You Save: $75.00 (14 %) Colt Police Positive Siberian Mammoth Ivory Grips, .32 or .38, Does Not Fit Police Positive Special (Special is Larger). Colt, by comparison, is now offering a couple of throwback models for the collector/nostalgia segment. Black Additionally, you can run out of grip frame really quick, and the bottom of your hand can be hanging off the bottom edge of the gun with nothing to hold onto. This means there are a lot of mighty fine duty-grade .38s out there in gun shops, not to mention private collections. Associated taxes and fees are the responsibility of winners. Providing Colt revolver parts since 1950. To protect the privacy and security of winners, names will not be made public. Mail-in entries accepted; send postcards (no envelopes) to: GUNS Magazine, Altor Pistols, P.O. Mail-in entries accepted; send postcards (no envelopes) to: GUNS Magazine, GOM March 2022, P.O. FITTING FOR S&W J FRAMES: There was an early report of poor fitting on an M&P 340 Scandium frame model, but I have not had subsequent reports of problems. The rate is for as many adapters as will fit in a single box (which is at least 10 but may be as many as 12). Something went wrong. ORGINAL WOOD GRIPS FOR COLT US ARMY MODEL 1917 FREASH!!! Two customers have fitted the K adapter to a Model 12, the lightweight K frame model whose frontstrap is 2mm narrower than regular K frames. Copyright 1995-2023 eBay Inc. All Rights Reserved. I have the impression that Vaquero grip frames may be different, at least some of them may be, but have no specific information. Charcoal Grey ($25.00) The Colt Police Positive is a small-frame, double-action revolver features a six-round cylinder. And although Im a card-carrying Smith guy these days, if I ever saw a nice used Colt Official Police in any barrel length 4, 5 or 6 Id grab it in a heartbeat. Skinny pencil barrel. Official Police: Naked ejector rod, pull to open cylinder release latch, left to right rotation. My next pocket carry is going to be +p capable without much recoil, and both the SP and K6S seem to fit that bill well. Dont forget the 148 grain WCs. This page was last updated: 04-Mar 21:26. Perhaps some PDs were leery of timing and alignment issues should some patrolman damage his while attempting to use his OP as a club. For deliberate single-action recreational shooting, Id go with the Official Police. They closely followed the lines of the skinny frames, giving nothing extra to hang onto. Dark Brown ($25.00) Box 488, Escondido, CA 92033. Grips #3553G ($41.50), Screw Kit #7194 ($16.00), Colt Authentic Hardware Kit #7811 ($16.00), Triple K Manufacturing Co. Employees and agents of Publishers Development Corp. are not eligible. The front sight width of both guns was an easy-to-acquire and reasonably glare-resistant serrated 1/8. Orders $75 and over ship for FREE in Contiguous USA (see restrictions). A Tyler T-Grip is pretty much mandatory on my S&W 12-2, as its an earlier one made with the slightly thinner than regular K-Frame grip frame; they didnt standardize it with the rest of the Ks until later. Sell now Shop with confidence eBay Money Back Guarantee I find I really like a Tyler T-grip with factory stocks (or custom slim stocks), not that I would pass up a deal on a set of Ropers! Deployed military should use stateside address. Grips #3549G ($41.50), Screw Kit #7190 ($16.00), Triple K Manufacturing Co. FITTING IN GENERAL: Remember that these devices are designed to be used with traditional service or Magna grip panels which leave the front strap exposed. Then there was the signature naked ejector rod on the OP. Winners will be notified by certified mail on official letterhead. Maryland Department of Natural Resources, State Agency: Lieutenant Colonel (Ret.) Theyll penetrate better and will cut a bigger hole, without battering your hand. Light Grey ($25.00) Youre rightthe 85 is a solid gun, and probably the best Taurus ever. The small frame revolver was first seen in the Police Positive and Police Positive Special, but then was also extended to the Detective Special, Commando Special, Cobra, Agent, Diamondback, Police Positive MK V, Viper, and Courier. Winners must respond within 30 days of receiving notification or an alternate winner will be selected. View cart for details. Customers advised that the D adapters also fit properly on an E frame Officers Model andon the large frame New Service model. I have other information sources I can then use to fill an order, but dont normally look at them unless I know theres an order out there for which I havent got the information in the usual form. No purchase necessary. To protect the privacy and security of winners, names will not be made public. This amount is subject to change until you make payment. Connecticut Department of Energy & Environmental Protection, Kansas Department of Wildlife, Parks & Tourism, Massachusetts Division of Fisheries & Wildlife, Oklahoma Department of Wildlife Conservation, Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources, West Virginia Division of Natural Resources, Virginia Department of Wildlife Resources, South Carolina Department of Natural Resources, Rhode Island Department of Fish & Wildlife, North Carolina Wildlife Resources Commission, New York Department of Environmental Conservation, Mississippi Deptartment of Wildlife, Fisheries & Parks, Minnesota Deptartment of Natural Resources, Michigan Deptartment of Natural Resources, Maine Department of Inland Fisheries & Wildlife, Louisiana Department of Wildlife & Fisheries, Kentucky Department of Fish & Wildlife Resources, Hawaii Department of Land & Natural Resources, Florida Fish & Wildlife Conservation Commission, Alabama Department of Conservation & Natural Resources. (II) Limit one (1) entry per household; multiple entries will disqualify entrants. Add to My Saved Parts. Grip Screw Nut, New. It has a slightly longer cylinder than the Police Positive and uses more powerful ammunition. You can check this thread for for the discussion that accompanied the initial testing of the K frame adapters on various guns, and for photos of the fit on various K and N frame guns: http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-revolvers-1980-present/200044-bk-grip-adapters-square-butt-k-frame-prototypers-wanted.html. The 85 does not deliver great follow-up shots when firing the full Critical Defense +p rounds. In fact, on a K frame square butt like a model 19 with the BK my hand naturally assumes the high-hold position and works well with the wide target trigger. October 19, 2012, 06:30 PM #7: Winchester_73. magna stocks ala S&W. The other issue is that there isnt a lot of surplus energy to play with. Oklahoma Department of Wildlife Conservation, State Agency: Iridescent Ivory ($25.00) Nebraska Game & Parks Commission, State Agency: I have actually carried with wadcutters in my gun and the Critical Defense standard pressure loads in my speed loaders. Arkansas Game & Fish Commission, State Agency: The Tyler units are made from either aluminum or bronze, and the BK Grips units are made from molded polymer, but they all perform the same function. Orange ($25.00) Versus Colt Police Positive Special .38, 1st, 2nd & 3rd Issue There is a Distinctive Difference in Size Between the Police Positive & the Police Positive Special. Good, low recoil option. But I cant guarantee that a J adapter fits on all Charter revolvers, and I dont have a specific list of compatible models to offer. The fix came in the form of grip adapters, which were added to the skinny frames to change the shape of the gripping surface, and reposition the hand on the frame. Prizes will not be awarded if illegal in jurisdiction of winners. Its kinda like putting oversized rims on the family sedanyou could do it, but it just wouldnt look right. I totally agree, one has to find the solution for his hand and his tastes. Price: $475.00. Missouri Deptartment of Conservation, State Agency: Well, there was the cost per unit difference. The Colt Official Police was a bit pricier circa 1968 $110 blued and slightly heavier because it was built on Colt's .41 caliber frame (35 oz. One customer reports the K adapter can be made to fit a USFA Bisley and a Beretta Bisley, but ti takes some filing to get everything snugged up well to the frame and grip surfaces. Associated taxes and fees are the responsibility of winners. Colt Police Positive Imitation Jig Bone Grips with Medallions, .32 or .38. Barrel Length: 4"-4.99" Caliber/Gauge: 38 Special: Finish: Blued: Chipped Grip . Other companies, like Pachmayr, Mershon and Tyler produced their own versions of grip adapters in the post-WWII era with great success. The OP shown here is a 1958-vintage 5 model, not quite as minty as the Smith. Factory warranties may apply in some cases. Winners will be notified by certified mail on official letterhead. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Customers have reported (with photos) that they also fit properly on the Cobra (alloy frame Detective Special) and Agent (Cobra with a shortened grip frame.) This was the design intent of the target stocks popularized by Roper in the 1930s. All entries must be received by giveaway end date. No substitutions or transfers to third parties allowed. Contest void where prohibited by law. Deployed military should use stateside address. Factory warranties may apply in some cases. The weight, in 4 trim was 30.5 oz. The grip frame size and curvature on these guns is the same as the D frame, so the D adapter snuggles into place properly. Designed by RaC Agencia. Connecticut Department of Energy & Environmental Protection, State Agency: (III) Giveaway winner(s) chosen by random drawing. Oregon Department of Fish & Wildlife, State Agency: Made in various calibers and variations 1927 - 1969. Something went wrong. Both feature the distinctive pull-to-open cylinder release latch. Black plastic grip adaptor with retaining clip. The grip adapters fill the area underneath the frame and behind the trigger guard, where the gun rests on your middle finger. Mail-in entries accepted; send postcards (no envelopes) to: GUNS Magazine, GOM February 2023, P.O. The tiny handles of wood or hard rubber used by Colts and Smith & Wesson on these early Hand Ejectors left a large part of the upper frame and recoil shoulder area completely exposed. . Manufactured by Pachmayr. in 4). Hot +P flyweight loads in .38 revolvers versus a 148-158 grain flat face profile (WC/SWC) especially snub guns at least to me, is like asking which is going to do more damage to you inside your new Ford F-150, or Chevy Silverado, (a) a rice-rocket doing 100 mph, or Wow, I never realized there was an option like this. Also, be aware that there were early, smaller Police Positive and Bankers Special frames which are sometimes referred to as D frames but which are NOT the same size as the later, larger Police Positive Special/Detective Special frame, and the D adapters do NOT fit properly on these earlier, smaller frames. Long before cops shifted to auto-pistols, there was a time a fairly long time when the LE market was dominated by the humble .38 caliber double-action revolver. Two Gold Medallions Installed #3251 ($24.00), Select an option Im afraid its not worth the hassle of dealing with the PayPal/USPS/Customs Forms interaction for the one or two orders a year that would come from outside the US. These designs were different than the S&W adapter, because they were composed of a single, curved piece, instead of several parts. The 2-clip design means that, initially, the adapter may not seem to fit as straight on the grip frame as the older single clip models. These metal tabs gripped the front strap of the frame, and the grip/stock panels were placed over them and secured in place with the grip screw, which held the adapter in place. State Agency: If you reside in an EU member state besides UK, import VAT on this purchase is not recoverable. Contest open to U.S. residents only. If recoil is the concern, theyre a great choice. What are you trying to be, some kind of gunslinger? Nossir, just want a better chance of hitting what I shoot at. He didnt like them, but didnt make me take them off. (This has only happened once in the 6+ years since this business opened, but the customers order was delayed for quite a while because I didnt know it was out there. Mail-in entries accepted; send postcards (no envelopes) to: GUNS Magazine, GOM May 2023, P.O. In 1908 Colt introduced the Police Positive revolver chambered for the ".38 Colt Special," which was nothing more than the .38 S&W Special cartridge with a different headstamp. Two customers have reported that a D adapter fits well on theirRugerSecurity/Service Six. They work great and allow me to keep the factory style stocks with their factory medallions and good looks. Larger grips for Colt Police Positive Special Handguns: The Revolver Forum The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > . Sorry, not aware of anyone making an adapter for that make and model. and the Colt at 2.75 lbs. About the Colt Official Police Revolver Employees and agents of Publishers Development Corp. are not eligible. Ill be interested to hear what you think of the WCs. Orange ($25.00) Prizes will not be awarded if illegal in jurisdiction of winners. About 25 years before Colt brought the curtain down on the Police Positive Special 1969 to be exact it was listed at $93.50 (blued). Hot Pink ($25.00) It has a slightly longer cylinder than the Police Positive and uses more powerful ammunition. Employees and agents of Publishers Development Corp. are not eligible. As a result, your grasp on the gun is shifted downwards on the frame. It may be that I just have to grow smaller hands and suck it up. The Police Positive Special Is Approximately 1 13/16" Wide At The Bottom. Giveaway prizes may have evidence of being test fired or exhibit minor handling marks. This survives in the "Python". I dont like their politics any more than the next guy, but they are the only game in town for very small businesses to take credit cards. (II) Limit one (1) entry per household; multiple entries will disqualify entrants. Winners must respond within 30 days of receiving notification or an alternate winner will be selected. Smith or Colt? Mail-in entries accepted; send postcards (no envelopes) to: GUNS Magazine, GOM Old West 2023, PO Box 488, Escondido, CA 92033. (I) Giveaway ends February 28, 2023. Factory warranties may apply in some cases. These are the standard grips with the stylized "C" around the screw hole. But nothing feels better than a 3 K-frame round butt with Magnas and a T-grip. The Police Positive Special double action revolver was made in various calibers and variations from 1907 until 1973. No substitutions or transfers to third parties allowed. For additional information, see the Global Shipping Program, Old Pachmayr Grip Adapter Colt Police Positive Courier Cobra Agent Pistol Gun. New Hardwood Grips For Colt D frame Short butt Police positive Checker Engraved. Product #: 175700 Part Key: 53. The Smith & Wesson Model 29 is the sixgun by which all other .44 Magnums are judged. Lavender ($25.00) Associated taxes and fees are the responsibility of winners. I dont use the Werner Carry System but its another tool in the toolbox if I did need it. (IV) Winners must undergo a background check (if required) and comply with all other federal, state and local laws. Charcoal Grey ($25.00) Other customers have reported that a J adapter fits the Rossi M68 and M88 models. Customers have reported that the J adapter fits properly on Taurus models 605 and 85. Excellent! Measuring right panel (vertical not diagonal) The Pre-1940 Colt version is what you see illustrated in this article. Another customer reports that the K adapter fits properly on a pre model 82 Taurus, sometimes known as The Falcon. The Police Positive (below) Ive wound up sticking a Tyler T-grip adapter on nearly every 50s to mid-60s Colt Ive ever used. The exception? Measuring right panel (vertical not diagonal) 3 7/32" long x 1 1/2" wide across center of screw hole. I was gonna tell you I had a Tyler T-Grip that I took off my Diamondback you could buy. Missing One Grip Panel. Some calibers can expand well and still penetrate deeply, but the .38 Special is not one of them, and if it was, you wouldnt want to shoot it in a snubby anyhow. Contest open to U.S. residents only. I think the adapters accomplish this well, but with a big hand like mine, things can feel a little crowded behind the trigger guard, particularly with the smaller D-Frame Colts and J-Frame Smith & Wessons. Thanks again. Position the T-Grip in the proper place and tighten the screw (DO NOT BEND THE COPPER CLIP). (b) a Kenworth tractor pulling a 64,000 pound load going 35 mph, In a snub gun, nothing says I love you quite like throwing a 158 LSWC-HP out the muzzle ( especially the softer alloyed Winchester version ), Uh-oh! This Colt Pocket Positive was Director Hoover's personal handgun. Today, weve still got Tyler Manufacturing making grip adapters (after some interruptions, as the family business changed hands) and theyre joined by a new kid on the block, BK Grips. I try to keep all 6 flavors in stock, but sometimes the customers get ahead of me and buy out one or more. The majority of .38 Special loads arent tailored for the snubs, and you wind up having a bullet that dances on the lower margin of the velocity envelope where youll get reliable expansion from a JHP. Winners must respond within 30 days of receiving notification or an alternate winner will be selected. Skip to main content. I would kind of like the heavier weight of Federals Nyclad 125gr for the reloads, but I dont think that round is available anymore. A better solution was obviously needed. Built on Colt's "D"-frame, the Police Positive was regarded as a small-frame revolver. Ive recently found myself in need of pocket-carry once/week when I visit a friend in a rough neighborhood. high-speed hotshot disco-era Super-Vel Police 110-grain JHP. The Police Positive Special double action revolver was made in various calibers and variations from 1907 until 1973. Another niche where a grip adaptor may be useful is the Werner Carry System. Grip Screw Nut Enlarge Image. To protect the privacy and security of winners, names will not be made public. (IV) Winners must undergo a background check (when required) and comply with all other federal, state and local laws. Tan ($25.00) If penetration is your priority, youll probably need to favor the heavier projectiles, unless youre willing to put up with extremely high pressures (and attendant recoil). They have not been checked on other D frame Colts, but there is no reason to think they will not fit properly on those guns as well. But if the Official Police is ever resurrected, its unlikely to be in its classic format. Colt police Positive Grips $20.00 + $5.85 shipping Lot of 2 Pachmayr Grip Adapters for Revolvers , Unknown Fit $15.00 + $5.00 shipping Ace trigger screw and poly grip adapter-Colt D-frame, Agent Detective special Free shipping Hover to zoom Have one to sell? Providing Colt revolver parts since 1950. Michigan Deptartment of Natural Resources, State Agency: Grip Pin Enlarge Image. MSRP: $550.00. The J adapter is supposed to fit properly on many Charter revolvers, and customers have reported success with the Undercover, Off Duty and Bulldog models. It was felt that forcing the hand lower on the frame would place the trigger finger in a better position to work the trigger straight to the rear. Btw, Lucky Gunner just added the .38 HST load to its extensive ballistic testing list: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXxbVP1mwGk, Grip adaptors have their place and they really shine when you need to improve the grip without enlarging the overall profile of the gun. Texas Parks & Wildlife Department, State Agency: RevolverGuy American Warrior Show Appearance, Across the Peak Podcast with Rich & Justin, target stocks popularized by Roper in the 1930s, https://snubtraining.wordpress.com/2009/07/13/snub-training-werner-carry-system/. You should be able to find a pair that fits your needs. Contest open to U.S. residents only. (IV) Winners must undergo a background check (if required) and comply with all other federal, state and local laws. Will be entertaining and, I hope, educational. New Hampshire Fish & Game Department, State Agency: Either gun served in both capacities admirably during their heyday. More Information; Manufacturer: Colt: Model: Police Positive. C $73.55 + C $84.11 shipping. But the proposed Winners must respond within 30 days of receiving notification or an alternate winner will be selected. I dress for the gun and cover the hammer with my thumb, practicing a lot drawing it. 'https://ssl' : 'http://www') + '.google-analytics.com/ga.js'; var s = document.getElementsByTagName('script')[0]; s.parentNode.insertBefore(ga, s); })(); // ]]> http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-revolvers-1980-present/195543-bk-grip-adapters.html, http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-revolvers-1980-present/200044-bk-grip-adapters-square-butt-k-frame-prototypers-wanted.html. Prizes will not be awarded if illegal in jurisdiction of winners. A bullet that expands probably wont go very deep, because it runs out of steam so fast. ), PAYMENTS ARE BY PAYPAL ONLY. Still, it might be the ideal system for someone else with different circumstances or preferences. These adapters were used in conjunction with the existing stocks to change the feel of the gun, and the idea was popular enough that they were made by many companies. In the interests of participatory democracy, I let shooters of different generations shoot both to give me a bit of feedback. The Colt D-Frame was originally designed as a conveniently sized carry weapon for law enforcement. No substitutions or transfers to third parties allowed. PLEASE NOTE THAT SALES ARE LIMITED TO USA ADDRESSES ONLY. Skeeter Skelton proposed his dream revolver.. Factory warranties may apply in some cases. I feel like Bogart when I fire it. The early guns have a cylinder which is ~1.25 long, while the later, larger guns have a cylinder which is ~1.56 long. Item restrictions take precedence, and are noted above in red. Accuracy at 25 yards was excellent from the Colt and more than acceptable from the Smith. (III) Giveaway winner(s) chosen by random drawing. I do use Tyler grip adaptors on a couple of revolvers and have always considered them to be a good option for some applications. SHIPPING IS BY PRIORITY MAIL. In 1927 Colt introduced the Detective Special, a 2 Police Positive Special in all but name, with the only real difference being a shortened ejector rod and ramped front sight. Grips for Colt Peacemaker, 1873, SAA, and New Frontier Single Action Revolvers. The target stocks made grip adapters unnecessary, and as they became more popular in the 60s and 70s, the market for grip adapters began to fall off. The Colt Police Positive Special was the Police Positive with a lengthened frame and cylinder to allow using longer, more powerful cartridges like the .38 Special. But as they say; Your Mileage May Vary , Well, Im glad you shared your thoughts re: ammunition in the SuperVel post, Jim! He also wrote the "Tactical Analysis" column at Police1.com for 8 years. Iridescent Ivory ($25.00) Colt Police Positive 38 Special Revolver Parts Kit . These parts are associated to the following schematics: Have a question? (II) Limit one (1) entry per household; multiple entries will disqualify entrants. Score one for the grip adapter. Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency, State Agency: Mississippi Deptartment of Wildlife, Fisheries & Parks, State Agency: 3 7/32 long x 1 1/2 wide across center of screw hole He also advised that the Beretta grips fit nearly perfectly on a Colt Bisley, so presumably a K adapter could be made to fit a Colt as well. The Colt Official Police was a bit pricier circa 1968 $110 blued and slightly heavier because it was built on Colts .41 caliber frame (35 oz. One benefit I have to concede is that the grip adapters allow better access for a speedloader than the vast majority of replacement stocks out there. For additional information, see the Global Shipping Program, This amount includes applicable customs duties, taxes, brokerage and other fees. Join Date: December 20, 2008 . (II) Limit one (1) entry per household; multiple entries will disqualify entrants. COLT | PYTHON, OFFICERS MODEL-E FRAME, TROOPER, COLT | OFFICERS MDL-E FRAME,OFFICIAL POL.-E FRAME, PYTHON, TROOPER, COLT | COMMANDO, OFFICERS MODEL MATCH, OFFICIAL POLICE, MARSHALL, ARMY SPECIAL, COLT | OFFICERS MODEL MATCH REVOLVER, OFFICIAL POLICE, MARSHALL, ARMY SPECIAL, COLT | ARMY SPECIAL, MARSHALL, OFFICERS MODEL, OFFICIAL POLICE, COLT | OFFICIAL POLICE, OFFICERS MODEL, MARSHALL, ARMY SPECIAL, COLT | ARMY SPECIAL, MARSHALL, OFFICERS MODEL REVOLVER, OFFICIAL POLICE, COLT | ARMY SPECIAL, MARSHALL, OFFICIAL POLICE, OFFICERS MODEL MATCH REVOLVER, Numrich Gun Parts Corporation But it is not as wide as the larger Tyler model which is made for these larger frames, and so the top of the adapter does not overhang the sides of the frame the way a larger adapter would. We werent going to let you out of here without getting something out of you on that subject. The first was from a cherished box of the original Super-Vel Police 110-grain JHP we decided to sacrifice in the interests of ballistic curiosity. Model 3S Small Shipping Show Details Orders $75 and over ship for FREE in Contiguous USA ( see restrictions ). Still early enough to enjoy beautiful bluing, Magna grips, and a pinned barrel. Black Associated taxes and fees are the responsibility of winners. Colt Python Walnut Wood Grips One in The World ! Prizes will not be awarded if illegal in jurisdiction of winners. dream revolver still had what looked like Still a cool gun. 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